Discourse.net

Calling either one of these guys a flip-flopper is both true and completely irrelevant. McCain initially had to appeal to the center to get the nomination, as he had more conservative opponents. Now that he has the nomination, he is naturally shifting to the right.

Obama had to initially appeal to the left, as Hillary captured the the blue-collar and center votes. Now, he is naturally shifting to the center.

The truth is that negative ads are effective at convincing a typical American that the other guy is the Anti-Christ. Both side will employ them, and as always, it is the race to the bottom.

The question is not what were they positions, or even what they are currently running on. The question is what policies are going to be implemented once elected. And at this point, I think they are both clueless.

There's a very large difference between Obama's (unfortunate) trimming on three or four (significant) issues [although Iraq is not one of them -- there's he's been consistent] and McCain's wholesale, desperate, daily repudiation of earlier policies and self-contradictions. Look at the Carpetbagger's list, to which I linked, and ask yourself if you can make a list even one tenth the size for Obama.

While I did not create it, here is a list of 17 Obama flip flops:
http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/07/09/comprehensive-obama-flip-flop-list

Another 20 or so are here (there is some overlap with the list above):
http://massdiscussion.blogspot.com/2008/06/collection-of-obama-flip-flops.html

I am not trying to play "gotcha". I only cite to these lists, in order to point out that the label of "flip-flopper" can be accurately applied to any modern U.S. politician, who is campaigning in the 24/7 media spotlight.

very helpful!!! thanks