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<title>Discourse.net/<![CDATA[Economics &amp; Money]]></title>
<link>http://www.discourse.net/archives/rooms/economics_money/</link>
<description>Economics &amp; Money-related posts from Discourse.net</description>
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<title>Why Don&apos;t We Bail Out Iceland?</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a serious question:  Iceland has long been a strong ally and a <span class="caps">NATO </span>member, despite having no armed forces.  As we all know, <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2008/04/21/080421ta_talk_surowiecki">the Icelandic economy is suffering from a virulent case toxic shock</a>. </p>

<p>Iceland&#8217;s economy is not, by US standards, particularly big, clocking in at about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iceland">US $12bn <span class="caps">GDP</span></a>.  A bailout would, I presume, take only a fraction of that?  And their troubles are really not their fault:</p>

<blockquote><p>So how did Iceland get in so much trouble? That&#8217;s the odd part of the story: it isn&#8217;t because its banks gambled on the worthless subprime securities that helped undo Bear Stearns and so many others. Iceland&#8217;s banks prudently avoided the subprime market, even as they embarked on a lending boom at home and expanded abroad. What got Iceland in trouble was something more subtle: its banks got their money primarily from international investors, making the Icelandic miracle heavily dependent on foreign capital.</p>

<p>In normal times, this might not have mattered, given the country&#8217;s solid economic fundamentals. But these aren&#8217;t normal times. The subprime crisis, in which investors realized that they had greatly underestimated the risks of lending to people with bad credit, has spawned a wider credit crunch: investors now suspect disaster behind every door, and even seemingly solid borrowers find credit much harder to come by. The subprime crisis was an earthquake that caused a tsunami: the quake has done plenty of damage on its own, but the tsunami looks set to do even more.</p>

<p>Iceland has been swamped by that tsunami because it trusted in the availability of global credit in time for that credit to evaporate.</p></blockquote>

<p> So why not bail them out?  There is of course no legal duty to do so; I&#8217;ll even stipulate that there is no moral <i>duty</i> to do so.  It&#8217;s just a way, quite cheap in the grand scheme of things, to make friends abroad and mitigate a global crisis.  The Icelandic people would, I would think, be grateful for a generation.  And other people around the world might see in this willingness to help out a sign of hope, which might help combat some the psychological aspects of the current crisis.</p>

<p>So, how much would we have to make available as a special loan facility to bail out Iceland?  Any arguments against this other than it might invite other governments to ask for bailouts too and we can&#8217;t afford them all?</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/11/why_dont_we_bail_out_iceland.html</guid>
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<title>Something to Sing About</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just <a href="http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/08/cern_rap.html">physicists</a> who get rap songs.</p>

<p><a title="Al_Franken_Show_-_Paul_Krugman_Theme.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage" href="http://www.box.net/shared/bf7rkxp218">Al_Franken_Show Paul Krugman Theme Song</a>.</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/10/something_to_sing_about.html</guid>
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<title>OK, This I Don&apos;t Like</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>In <a href="http://rc3.org/2008/10/10/evidence-that-we-should-freak-out-episode-i/">Evidence that we should freak out, episode I</a>, <span class="caps">RC3 </span>points me to <a title="Grain piling up in Canadian ports | FP Passport" href="http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/10010">Grain piling up in Canadian ports | FP Passport</a>:</p>

<blockquote>Still think the global credit crunch is all about the <span class="caps">TED </span>spread and collateralized debt obligations? Think harder. Export-bound grain has started piling up in Canada as sellers have begun refusing to trust the credit lines and financial institutions linked to their foreign buyers.<br /><br />The problem is that Canada&#8217;s export cargoes don&#8217;t get loaded until buyers can prove their ability to pay &#8212; proof that has been increasingly hard to come by in the wake of bank defaults and shrinking credit markets worldwide. Unable to get credit lines, many buyers have left the grain market, generating big losses for Canadian shippers. Add to this the greater costs that shippers now shoulder because of delayed payments, and the picture starts looking pretty bleak. </blockquote>

<p>Krugman is right (again): if the <span class="caps">IMF </span>crowd can&#8217;t pull something fierce-looking out of the hat this weekend, next week is going to be a real shocker.</p>

<p>(But I find <a href="http://rc3.org/2008/10/10/evidence-that-we-should-freak-out-episode-ii/">Evidence that we should freak out, episode II</a> much less convincing.  That sounds more like an investment opportunity than a looming disaster.)</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/10/ok_this_i_dont_like.html</guid>
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<title>Get Some Facts</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://www.bepress.com/ev/announce/20080923/">Economists&#8217; Voice</a> has some timely writing:</p>

<blockquote><strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.bepress.com/ev/vol5/iss5/art2?sending=10326">Why Paulson is Wrong</a></strong>
</p><p style="font-style: italic; margin-bottom: 12px; margin-top: 0pt;">Luigi Zingales</p>
There are alternatives to a massive government bailout of the <span class="caps">U.S. </span>financial industry, according to Luigi Zingales&#8212;they just would be more costly for financiers and cheaper for taxpayers. 

<p>
<strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.bepress.com/ev/vol5/iss5/art4?sending=10326">Questioning the Treasury&#8217;s $700 Billion Blank Check: An Open Letter to Secretary Paulson</a></strong><br />
</p><p style="font-style: italic; margin-bottom: 12px; margin-top: 0pt;">Aaron S. Edlin</p>

<p>The Treasury wants a blank check for $700 billion, at taxpayer expense; instead a businessman like Buffett should be given the job of making the taxpayers some money out of this mess, according to Aaron Edlin. </p>

<p>
<strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.bepress.com/ev/vol5/iss5/art3?sending=10326">Dr. StrangeLoan: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Financial Collapse</a></strong><br />
</p><p style="font-style: italic; margin-bottom: 12px; margin-top: 0pt;">Aaron S. Edlin</p>Last week, on Wednesday September 17, 2008, the Bush Administration almost stumbled upon a way to eliminate the <span class="caps">U.S. </span>debt and even taxes.  Aaron Edlin&#8217;s ironic take on a world gone mad.

<p>
<strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.bepress.com/ev/vol5/iss5/art1?sending=10326">Investment Banking Regulation After Bear Stearns</a></strong><br />
</p><p style="font-style: italic; margin-bottom: 12px; margin-top: 0pt;">Dwight M. Jaffee and Mark Perlow</p>

The Bear Stearns bailout created an implicit guarantee that will create a great deal of moral hazard unless we smartly regulate investment banks in a way that doesn&#8217;t destroy their value; so say Dwight Jaffee and Mark Perlow.  </blockquote>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/get_some_facts.html</guid>
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<title>Miami Demo Against the Bailout</title>
<description><![CDATA[<blockquote>Miami: Say NO to the Bush Bailout Rally
September 25, 2008<br />
5:00 PM - 6:30 PM

<p>Stand with your neighbors and say NO Bush Bailout!</p>

<p>Bring signs and friends so that we can all call on the government to invest in Main Street, not Wall Street.</p>

Address<br />
Busy Street Corner<br />
SW 17th Avenue and <span class="caps">US1</span><br />
Miami, FL 33133 </blockquote>

<p>I wonder why so often progressive rallies pick this corner?  Yes, it&#8217;s on a main commuter route, but it&#8217;s soulless and not that accessible.</p>

<p><b>Update: <a href="http://truemajority.wiredforchange.com/event/distributedEventCalendar.jsp#">find a rally near you</a></b></p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/miami_demo_against_the_bailout.html</guid>
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<title>Feh</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I am very disappointed to read <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/economy/25bush.html?hp">this in the <span class="caps">NYT </span>online</a>.  </p>

<blockquote>At the same time, Congressional Democrats said they were prepared to drop one of their most contentious demands: new authority for bankruptcy judges to modify the terms of first mortgages. That provision, aimed at preventing foreclosures, was heavily opposed by Senate Republicans.</blockquote>

<p>I hope it is not true.  I have yet to read a convincing case for why banks should get all the windfalls for their evident stupidities.  I do not like being asked to pay large sums of money for windfalls to the improvident, but given the choice between improvident families losing their homes and stock and bondholders in improvident banks, I know whose windfall I&#8217;d choose to hand my a share of my income to.</p>

<p>On a somewhat more cheerful note, it seems that the Dems might &#8220;only&#8221; hand over $150 billion, which might leave a little money for social programs in the Obama administration.  Even though the $700 bn number was clearly made up, I suppose this will be about as small a number as they can get away with.  Think what it could have done for health care.</p>

<p>If the Congress doesn&#8217;t hold some sort of line on the amount, the <span class="caps">GOP </span>program of &#8220;starving the beast&#8221; &#8212; making the Treasury so broke that there&#8217;s no danger Democrats could afford anything popular &#8212; would truly have reached its apotheosis. </p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/feh.html</guid>
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<title>Backlash</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I hab a bad cold so instead of trying to say anything I will refer you to <a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/well-that-could-have-gone-better-by.html">dday at Digby&#8217;s place</a>.</p>

<p>Fly a plane, catch a cold, it seems to be a law of nature.</p>

<p>This administration rushing a bill through congress, hogs at the trough, that seems to be a law of nature too.</p>

<p>But the Senate may be finding some spiny growths, so not all observed regularities in nature are reliable predictors.</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/backlash.html</guid>
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<title>Steps in the Right Direction</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>At first glance, <a href="http://publicmarkup.org/bill/dodds-legislative-proposal-treasury-department-aut/">Dodd&#8217;s counter-proposal</a> on how to deal with the Bush financial mess looks like <a href="http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/daddy-doesnt-know-best/">a real improvement</a>.  But <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/what-the-dodd-bill-needs-in-order-to-be-complete/">there&#8217;s still room for more improvement</a>.</p>

<p>(URL fixed, thanks to Adam)</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/steps_in_the_right_direction.html</guid>
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<title>A Bad First Draft</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://boztopia.com/?p=325">Seven Simple Reasons To Oppose The Bailout</a></p>

<p>I&#8217;m on board with at least six of these.</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/a_bad_first_draft.html</guid>
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<title>The Bigger They Are, The Harder They Fall (If We Let Them)</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Nate Oman has an interesting, if somewhat sobering, poist at <a title="Concurring Opinions" href="http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/09/and_the_winner_is.html">Concurring Opinions</a> which begins as follows:</p>

<blockquote>One of my students sent me the pages from Lehman&#8217;s filings listing the 30 top unsecured creditors. It&#8217;s a simple column of figures that makes sobering reading, even for a let-the-market-punish-them enthusiast such as myself. First past the post is CitiBank with $138 billion in unsecured bonds. Just for fun, I tried to find out what $138 billion will get you in today&#8217;s world. </blockquote>

<p>The comparative numbers he offers are so big as to nearly defy comprehension.</p>

<p>I understand the <a href="http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Schumpeter.html">Schumpaterian</a> arguments for size and global competitiveness, but isn&#8217;t there still some virtue to keeping firms from getting too enormous?</p>

<p><span class="caps">OK,</span> Lehman wasn&#8217;t too big to fail.  But two or three Lehmans might be.  </p>

<p>And we just socialized <span class="caps">AIG </span>(<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN1440161120080917">Fed to lend $85 billion to <span class="caps">AIG, </span>take 80 percent stake</a>).  Did <span class="caps">FDR </span>do anything on this scale?</p>]]>
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<guid>http://www.discourse.net/archives/2008/09/the_bigger_they_are_the_harder_they_fall_if_we_let_them.html</guid>
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